Neuroscience and public investment

Neuroscience is the science that studies the structure and functioning of the nervous system. About what is happening now in this area, how it is developing in Russia and abroad, we talked with a well-known specialist in this field - head of the laboratory at the RIKEN Brain Institute (Japan), Professor of Nizhny Novgorod State University Alexey Vasilyevich Semyanov.

The interview was conducted by Yana Wojciechowska.

Where is the cutting edge of neuroscience, what problems does it solve today?

Neuroscience is of particular importance for several reasons, and one of them is medical. Currently, the main causes of mortality are cardiovascular diseases, cancers and brain pathologies. Cancer diseases are being studied very intensively today. Huge funds are being invested in these studies and, apparently, drugs will soon be created to treat people from cancer. Already, some forms of cancer are treatable, especially with timely diagnosis. But we are still far from treating brain diseases. Alzheimer's disease, epilepsy, schizophrenia, strokes, brain injuries, as a rule, lead to irreversible tissue degeneration.

In the modern world, human life expectancy is increasing, and there are problems associated with aging of the brain. The brain has a limited ability to recover, new neurons arise only in limited areas of the brain, so it is very difficult to restore lost brain functions. With age, this ability only decreases, which leads to deterioration of brain functions.

In addition to the medical aspect, neuroscientists are also interested in the fundamental processes of encoding, processing and storing information in the brain. If we find out how these processes occur, we will be able to talk about the brain-computer interface, brain-like computers and the creation of artificial intelligence. For example, in automation, there are tasks of synchronizing elements of complex systems and analyzing a large number of parameters that non-linearly affect each other, which are extremely difficult for modern computers. That's why we need airplane pilots, air traffic controllers, train drivers. The brain is still the best computer that solves such problems.

Could you give a concrete example of a task that your laboratory is engaged in?

We are engaged in research of the processes occurring in the brain at the cellular level. It is at the cellular and molecular level that information is encoded and stored in the brain, and it is at this level that drugs act. There are two main types of cells in the brain: neurons and glia. Until recently, only neurons were considered as cells that transmit signals in the brain. They are capable of generating electrical activity and are connected to each other through chemical synaptic contacts. The electrical activity of large groups of neurons can be registered even with the help of electrodes attached to the scalp – this is the basis of the electroencephalography method. Neurons are organized into a complex network in which a signal is transmitted from cell to cell. Based on this knowledge, pharmacological preparations have been developed for many years that affect exclusively the excitability of neurons or synaptic transmission.

Discoveries of recent years have shown that in the brain, in addition to electrical signals in neurons and synaptic transmission (from point to point), there is some controlling extra-synaptic chemical signal, which is sometimes called volumetric signal transmission. We believe that this signal is spatially heterogeneous and serves as a kind of template for the operation of neural networks, and determines which of the neurons in the network are “turned on” and which are “turned off”. It is curious that this pattern is formed as a result of the activation of not only neurons, but also glia, whereas in classical theory these cells are considered as auxiliary. This hypothesis forces us to take a fundamentally new look at the principles of processing and storing information in the brain, to propose new pharmacological drugs.  We hope that such drugs will be more effective in the treatment of currently incurable brain pathologies.

Is it possible to localize the area in the brain, the area where the "I", the personality of a person is located?

We can only talk about this at a very primitive level so far. For example, we know that the destruction of certain areas of the brain disrupts one or another of its functions. For example, if you remove the hippocampus, the brain structure responsible for memory, then a person will stop remembering new information, but he will remember what happened to him once before. In other words, a person will find himself in "groundhog day" when he wakes up every time on the same day. 

The classic case was described with Henry M., a patient at a clinic in Connecticut, USA, in 1953.  Henry suffered from epilepsy and had his left and right hippocampus removed as treatment. After the operation, he lost the ability to form a new semantic memory, a memory that can be expressed in words. For example, every day he learned anew about the death of his matter and cried. At the same time, his motor memory was preserved. He learned to play table tennis after surgery. But when asked if he could play table tennis, he replied that he could not. But when I started playing, the ability immediately appeared. This example shows that we can detect brain structures associated with the formation of a person's personality. Undoubtedly, the development of the personality of Henry M. stopped with the loss of semantic memory. On the other hand, some brain functions may not be localized in some specific place, but distributed.

The approach in which it is necessary to destroy the structure of the brain in order to understand its functions is rather crude and is no longer used. Modern research is aimed at identifying more subtle mechanisms, and methods are becoming less invasive. But to study such subtle mechanisms, highly sensitive devices are required, work on which is not trivial and requires special knowledge. Neuroscience, once a biological discipline, has become multidisciplinary. Physicists have begun to play a key role in modern neuroscience research, since laboratory equipment implies a deep knowledge of physics and mathematics, methods of analyzing experimental data have become physical and mathematical.

There was even a theoretical neuroscience (which in Russia is sometimes called neurodynamics). Theoretical neuroscience is engaged in modeling the processes occurring in the brain and uses mathematical methods. Thus, neuroscience is a specific field of knowledge that combines biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics for the cognition of the brain, and through it, the human personality.

Are there any advanced areas in neuroscience, laboratories, institutes in Russia? 

In Russia, neuroscience was actively developing before the crisis that came after Perestroika. The main centers were formed in St. Petersburg, Moscow, Pushchino, and Kazan. Modern neuroscience requires expensive and high-tech equipment. The cost of one modern research complex can exceed one million euros. Laboratories in Russia could not receive such money for a long time, unlike laboratories in other developed countries, and for this reason the gap in the level of research conducted in Russia and abroad has grown significantly. Before that, a strong Russian neuroscience school could still support itself for some time due to original ideas and unconventional use of outdated methods. But there is a limit to everything. Now, with an increase in government funding, some laboratories are gaining strength again, young people are coming, but it is undoubtedly very difficult to get back to the cutting-edge level. 

One of the positive examples that I want to talk about in this context is the example of Nizhny Novgorod State University. Interesting neurobiological studies were conducted in Nizhny Novgorod, but neuroscience there did not receive such significant development as in the previously mentioned centers. Nevertheless, in 2005, the Department of Neurodynamics and Neurobiology was opened at Nizhny Novgorod State University, of which I am an employee. When the university received a large grant within the framework of the national project “Education”, an amount equivalent to one million euros was allocated to our department. With this money, we are forming an educational neuroscience laboratory, which will be equipped with modern equipment, which currently has no analogues in Russia. 

Nizhny Novgorod State University recently signed a cooperation agreement with the Japanese RIKEN Brain Institute, one of the largest centers of neuroscience in the world. Since there was no equivalent neuroscience center in Nizhny Novgorod, it was necessary to convince Japanese scientists that we have the potential to become such a center. This was largely due to the efforts of physicists who have a traditionally strong school in Nizhny Novgorod. 

Moreover, the laboratory that we are creating at the Department of Neurodynamics and Neurobiology is a "mirror" with my laboratory at the RIKEN Brain Institute. This means that it is built on a certain principle, implying a deep integration of the research of both laboratories. In Nizhny Novgorod, we bought equipment similar to the one in Japan. Thanks to this, we will be able to launch it in a short time thanks to the experience already available. The purchase and debugging of equipment is the first and very difficult stage of creating a new laboratory. As a rule, it takes quite a long time, from many months to several years. This is if you have work experience. People who have not worked with modern equipment are not even able to choose it correctly. I know of examples when installations worth over a million dollars are not used properly due to errors in the choice of configuration at the purchase stage. The creation of a “mirror” laboratory in Nizhny Novgorod means that we know exactly what will work and how.

The second even more difficult stage of creating a new laboratory is the search for employees who are able to work on the purchased equipment. If there are no analogues of the purchased equipment in Russia, therefore, there are no specialists either. And here again the “mirror” laboratory solves the problem. Employees from Nizhny Novgorod will be trained at the RIKEN Brain Institute within the framework of the national project “Education”. 

Finally, when the equipment is working and there are specialists capable of working on it, the head of the laboratory should be able to set a world-class task that would be solved in such a laboratory. To set such a task, it is necessary to read the latest international scientific journals, attend international conferences. There are such scientists in Russia, but not so many. But there are our compatriots working abroad who could be useful with their experience. It follows from this that it would be very reasonable to spread the experience of Nizhny Novgorod State University to create such a laboratory and propose the creation of a neuroscience center from many “mirror” laboratories.

So, the principle of the "mirror" laboratory is the creation of an analogue?

Not exactly an analogue. We did not have the task of simply copying a foreign laboratory. Our goal was to create something better and complementary. For example, as the head of the laboratory at the RIKEN Brain Institute, it would not be interesting for me to cooperate with an exact copy of the laboratory. Why, if I can do it all there, having already trained employees and set experimental tasks. I wanted to create a research complex that would be somewhat different and thus make it possible to expand the range of experimental methods. On the other hand, it was impossible to create something very different, since then we would not be able to train employees of the Nizhny Novgorod laboratory in Japan.   Thus, there is some “golden mean” in terms of similarities and differences of “mirror” laboratories.

Is such a system possible without government funding? Is it possible to do this at the expense of some international grants?

Of course not. In the modern world, only the state is able to finance the national education system and fundamental science. To do this, a special federal program should work, focused on supporting such educational and scientific laboratories. Equipment, employee training, salaries to avoid brain drain, reagents and consumables are very expensive. For example, in the Nizhny Novgorod laboratory, one installation costs a million euros, and only one person can work on it at the same time. This is a serious one-time investment. Several dozen laboratories in the world are equipped with similar equipment, but it took them many years of stable state funding of science, and the receipt of a number of scientific grants.

In Russia, we set out to recreate advanced science from scratch. Since we want to do this quickly, we need large public investments. Moreover, we must invest not only in equipment, but also in the brains of people who know how to work on it. And the best candidates are our compatriots who live abroad.

Although the situation differs in different fields of science. What is important for biomedical research may not be important for astronomy. For example, Andrey Mikhailovich Finkelstein believes that the situation in astronomy does not require the involvement of compatriots working abroad. Thus, astronomical research in Russia may require less government funding. In other words, it is necessary to monitor and determine priorities for the allocation of public funds, both from the point of view of national interests and from the point of view of the state of affairs in a particular branch of science. 

Is there any world experience in creating "mirror" laboratories?

I know at least a few neuroscientists who have laboratories in different countries at the same time, for example, in the USA and the UK or in the USA and China. Thus, the idea of “mirror” laboratories is not new. From their words and from my own experience, I can say that it is quite difficult to manage two laboratories located on different continents. For example, the well-known neuroscientist Mu Ming Pu runs an institute in China and works in the USA. He flies back and forth every month. This requires strong motivation and health. I fly only once every three months, but I'm not in charge of the institute yet.

But science is international. Why spend money in Russia on such expensive projects when the standard of living is already insufficient? Maybe it's not worth creating such laboratories in Russia, since our scientists can work in the West anyway, and we can grow the appropriate personnel?

Firstly, we will not be able to grow personnel if we do not have our own science. Who will cook them? Teachers can be qualified if only they are actively engaged in science themselves. If we do not have modern science, then the issue of personnel can be closed. You can't teach students what you've never done yourself.

Secondly, science has absolutely certain economic benefits for the state. For example, the "Japanese miracle" happened because the Japanese began to invest in technology. They didn't have the oil and gas that Russia has, so Japan was a very poor country. The Japanese have boosted the economy by investing in high technology. At first it was a state task, and now even private companies are engaged in these technologies, as they realized that they need to invest in it and that it can bring profit in the future. 

There is a similar trend in Russia: oil producing and refining companies are investing in oil production and processing technologies. But it has not yet come to an understanding that it is possible to invest not only in these technologies, but also in others, for example, in biomedicine: in the development of drugs, in the creation of prostheses for people, and so on.

Regarding the internationality of science: if scientists have discovered something important that can bring economic benefits, it will be patented, first of all, in the country where the discovery was made. In the same country there will be companies that will use the patent and make a profit, pay taxes, etc. This happens, for example, in the USA or the UK. Knowledge belongs to everyone, but the patent and the money from this patent will primarily benefit the country where the development was made. In addition, there are developments of a defense nature and no explanations are required here: it is unlikely that other countries will share them with Russia

Why did the Japanese state realize that it is necessary to invest in science and what, in your opinion, should scientists do to establish such a dialogue with the state and society?

One of the things that students are taught in the USA is the ability to convey their knowledge to the public, to ordinary people. Science is a specialized field of human activity with its own language. Therefore, the task of scientists is to explain in evidence-based and understandable language why taxpayers should give their money in order to finance science. Many foreign scientific foundations require to set a fundamental scientific task in such a way that the result of its solution helps to cope with some applied task in order to receive grants. For example, when applying for such a grant, a neuroscientist should indicate that in addition to its fundamental significance, his research will help people who have suffered a stroke. Moreover, this should not be an abstract statement, but concrete steps for its implementation should be proposed and possibly clinical trials should be conducted. Then scientists talk about their results on television or on the radio, and people understand why these studies are needed. This is how public opinion is formed.

The task of dialogue with the government is set a little differently. Government officials should make an economic assessment of certain investments. They need to calculate how much investments in science will cost for the budget, predict the results and possible profits. There are special methods for this: the disability of the population as a result of diseases, disability, old age costs the state some money, which is invested in the health care system, pension system, social benefits, etc. If science finds the means to treat certain diseases, prolong the active life of the population, etc., then the state will be able to spend less on healthcare, increase the retirement age, etc.  The task of scientists in this case is to convey to government officials the significance of their research for the state. This is already the task of high-ranking scientists. But they, being people of the old school, do not always know how to do it, so the solution in this situation is to stimulate the career growth of young people.

Source: <url> 

Portal "Eternal youth" www.vechnayamolodost.ru27.11.2007