Cellular technologies in Russia: a correspondent's conversation with an academician

Konstantin Yarygin: "The creation of artificial life is just around the corner"Andrey Polyakov, Popular Information Agency

The vanguard of world scientific medicine is making breakthrough after breakthrough in the redoubts of a person's hardened ideas about the hidden capabilities of the body. With the help of stem cells, as it turned out, it is possible not only to grow any living human organs, but also in the near future to create artificial life. Konstantin Nikitovich Yarygin, Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Sciences  Head of the laboratories of Cell Biology at the Russian State Medical University, the Institute of Biomedical Chemistry, as well as the Institute of General Pathology and Physiology, is among the world's scientific elite, which has brought medicine to a qualitatively new level. Our meeting took place in the RSMU laboratory, which, for unknown reasons, they decided to close at a time when Yarygin's successes are beyond doubt not only in Russia, but also abroad.

Konstantin Nikitovich, now everyone is making noise both in the USA and in Russia about stem cells. And what is it?– We have stem cells, this is already a brand name in fact.

  In fact, it is more correct to talk about cellular technologies, and in a broader sense – about regenerative medicine. Over the past 20 years, huge funds have been invested in the study of cells, in particular, stem cells have been discovered, as those cells that make up the pool and exist for life - from the moment of conception to death. And from this pool cells are recruited for regeneration, renewal of all organs and tissues. This discovery played a key role in the revival of what is called regenerative medicine.

Now it is possible to restore the affected organs and tissues, there were no such opportunities before. For example, stem cell transplantation can lead to the restoration of the structure and functions of nervous tissue. This is quite widespread, and active testing is underway. You can make some organs "in vitro". Recently, for example, a bladder was made in vitro, not in the body. It was made from its own stem cells. A little later, it was possible to make a trachea and, most importantly, bronchi. Both the bladder and the trachea-bronchus complex were transplanted to patients after operations for oncology. The patients are alive and well, and they feel great.

Is there a law in Russia that regulates the use of stem cells? Recently, scandals with their withdrawal and use have become more frequent. Is this issue being solved somehow?– There are such laws in the UK, Italy, and some other countries.

Unfortunately, we do not have such a law. And so there is some chaos here. But, as far as I know, the authorities at various levels have recently become interested in this issue and are working quite actively. We all hope that this work will result in a clear and unambiguous law. Because this thing is very important. For example, the National Institutes of Health predict the beginning of widespread use of cellular technologies from 2012-2013. And as a result, a significant extension of the average life expectancy to 120-130 years is expected. However, in this regard, the question is being discussed: "What will happen to the economy?". After all, the generational change in all industries will be greatly slowed down. Young people will have fewer prospects for growth and so on.

In fact, a person should naturally live to such an age. I have met such people in Russia who lead a correct, or rather, a righteous way of life.

Do the United States take our scientists and do our specialists go there?– Emigration was very strong in the 1990s, when there was practically no funding.

Now the outflow is much less, because there is an opportunity to work here. But, nevertheless, there is a certain emigration, because they have an advantage over us in terms of financial resources, the number of laboratories, the number of working scientists, and the wealth of the scientific environment. We must be aware of this.

Do American and Russian scientific approaches differ in any way, and do we have any achievements of our own in this field?– American science is clearly divided into fundamental and practical, which is aimed at bringing to concrete results of fundamental research.

Our research aimed at practical application is poorly organized. Because we have practically no implementation firms, no legislation that would regulate copyright. This is a significant difference. In addition, the blow that was inflicted on Russian biological science in the 1940s is still affecting.

What does your laboratory do? What is the direction of its activities, what are its achievements?– We have very good achievements in the use of cellular technologies in the treatment of spinal injury.

As well as the study of stem cells of different origins. I would say that we are keeping level here. I can't say that we are ahead of the whole planet. Maybe we are a little ahead in spinal injury. Moreover, clinical trials were conducted on several patients on the basis of the CITO – Central Institute of Traumatology and Orthopedics, and they showed very good results. There are other laboratories that are very active. For example, the Smirnov Clinic at the Sklifosovsky Institute treats burns. They have very good achievements. If earlier a person who had a significant part of the skin surface affected, say, 50 percent, died, now people who have 60-70 percent of the skin affected survive.  This is just a real achievement of cellular technologies.

Also, we are currently working on some very interesting projects with MSU and with the Department of Neurology of the Faculty of Medicine and Biology of the Russian State Medical University. It is devoted to the development of a method of in-life monitoring with what and where is moving in a living animal with transplanted cells. We already have very good pictures. We will be publishing materials about this soon. This work is being carried out at a good international level.

How do you see the prospects of cellular technologies? How much can they affect life expectancy?– If we talk about life expectancy, there is no answer to the main question yet – is aging programmed, or is it just wear and tear?

If it is programmed, then it is definitely possible to deal with it. And if it's wear and tear, then you can also fight, and here regenerative medicine can give a lot. Imagine that you can replace everything: the heart, peripheral nerves, brain areas, lungs, liver, and so on. All this will help to increase life expectancy, and a person will not get sick the way he is sick now. Usually, from the age of 50-60, most people are already ill.

US scientists have announced self-replicating DNA. Are DNA and cellular technologies interconnected or are they completely different areas?– DNA is a completely different field.

It's about creating artificial life. And at the next stage – the creation of an artificial cell, that is, first the synthesis of individual components, and then the whole cell. Research in this regard is at the very beginning. With sufficient financial investments, this cell will be created in 10-20 years. And this knowledge can be used to create artificial life. I don't know, however, to what extent this will help the life that already exists.

Does the state help with your research?– I mentioned earlier about a spinal injury.

We conducted research in this area, relying on funding from the Agency for Science and New Technologies of the Ministry of Science and Education. This grant lasted for two years. We received very substantial help, it's just a pity that we can't buy equipment, but otherwise the help was quite tangible. I would not say that the state does nothing. And the fact that some scientific and medical groups receive more than others is a common practice. Things are exactly the same in the USA, I worked there for 7 years.

The source material for stem cells excites the public through scary media reports. Very often criminal stories related to the extraction of the source material come up, besides, how ethical is it to use the so-called abortion material?– Work with the material from abortions has been started for a long time, including in the United States before the adoption of very strict laws when Bush came to power.

There is a very positive effect from the transplantation of fetal cells, which provoke a very powerful stimulation of a person, including an elderly person. Naturally, many people try to use this effect, and in some cases it brings very positive results. Abortions that may be suitable for use must be older than nine weeks, because otherwise there may be the development of teratomas in the place where the transplanted cells will be homed, in the tissues where they will get. Teratomas are benign tumors consisting of a variety of cells – nerve, muscle, fibroblasts, and so on. Sometimes a teratocarcinoma is formed, that is, a malignant tumor that is life-threatening. Therefore, abortions of a later period are used. Abortions are allowed for up to 12 weeks. But the most valuable material, especially for the treatment of some internal diseases, is abortions older than 17 weeks, and preferably 20 weeks. I know people who are engaged in the transplantation of these cells, but I do not know people who are associated with some kind of criminality in this regard.

There is an alternative – fetal cells that are taken in the organs after birth are the placenta and the umbilical cord. Not umbilical cord blood, but the umbilical cord. Placental cells are multipotent and can transform into any cells of the body, and besides, they are completely non-immunogenic. Umbilical cord cells have the same properties. In addition, endothelial cells and their precursors can be taken from the umbilical cord for vascular repair, in particular, in atherosclerosis. Extensive work is underway here and the prospects are very great. There are already achievements and clinical trials are underway.

Where do you get the material for your work?– We take material from the placenta and umbilical cord, as well as from the bone marrow.

This is necessary for people with spinal cord pathologies. The cells have been certified by the Federal Agency for Supervision, and they were used in clinical trials at the time.

Is there any danger of using cells for other purposes, for example, a cell carries some specific information and is responsible for a certain organ, and it is used for a completely different organ?– It depends on how the cells are applied.

Potentially, they can worry for many years if they get into the central nervous system. In all other cases, they die. This is because they secrete a lot of growth factors and stimulate their own stem cells. They begin to divide, although stem cells divide very slowly. And thus the regeneration of many tissues is stimulated.

Now at what stage is the introduction of cellular technologies? Is only scientific work being carried out, or is practice already widespread?– Now, having evaluated the relevant proposal, the scientific council and the ethics committee allow limited clinical trials.

But we all hope that laws will be passed that will allow us to carry out our work on a regular basis. This will already be a state body, not an academic council, which will be able to assess the prospects of the work, how well thought out and justified it is, and which will also have the technical capabilities to verify the material. I think it's all just around the corner.

How does business behave in relation to your developments?– Our business is used to a very fast turnover of funds.

A person, for example, is interested, and then says: "Well, what are you waiting for three years! It's impossible!" But now there are people who show interest in this and strive to work for the future.

Your laboratory at RSMU is going to be closed. What is the reason for this? Don't see any prospects? The topic is the most promising.– This is due to the reorganization.

The university administration has certain plans, in particular, the organization of a collective use center so that different laboratories can work here. I personally think that this is not entirely rational, because it is very important to maintain not just cleanliness, but exceptional cleanliness. Therefore, a limited number of people should work. But on the other hand, other people should also be given the opportunity to work. Actually, we are not complaining, we have a place to work.

During the time that you have worked in the USA, what results have you achieved and are your colleagues using them?– The results were released in 2000-2001.

But then, as I said, Bush came to power, and everything was practically banned there for a while. But now I'm resuming contacts. There is a generously funded program in California. Probably, we will work with scientists from San Diego in such a direction as spinal cord injury, and separately on cancer stem cells.

Do you have patents?  Where do they have their distribution: only in the USA or in Russia too?– I have patents.

But patenting in Russia, according to the deputy head of the relevant Agency, is meaningless. You can patent abroad, but it is expensive and before you patent there, you need to know the company that is already ready to implement it.

Do Russian laboratories correspond to the world level?– Unfortunately, we do not have an organization that could certify laboratories.

Therefore, the only way is certification with the involvement of Western organizations. But despite this, there are several very good laboratories in Moscow that are no worse than Western ones. There are good specialists, and their number is gradually increasing.

Is the cost of your final product fixed or does it depend on some factors?

– It depends on a large number of factors, and the cost price can be calculated when there is already a certain commercial product. And if such a product is created, then its cost is calculated from the volume of production. The greater the demand, the lower the cost.

What is the safety of the product?– The product must meet some criteria.

Now each laboratory uses a product that is used in practice, guided by its own criteria, and there should, of course, be general criteria.

Cosmetology is very popular in Russia today. In this area, how much are stem cells in demand?– In fact, products of this kind have been used for a very long time.

There are classic Swiss clinics where this has been done since the 1950s. They even used animal cells for general stimulation. There is a lot of interest in stem cells in the West now. French firms are not only conducting research, but they already have products. This is also being done in Russia. But we don't have statistics. And in general, it is difficult to assess.

Now there are many offers in Russia from cosmetic companies for services of this kind. Could it just be a soap bubble?– Maybe, maybe not.

Trust, but check.

According to the assumptions of some scientists, genetic engineering already existed on Earth 5,000 years ago…– You asked a question about artificial DNA.

This is the first step towards creating artificial life. That is, a person can really become a creator.

DNA is the first stage, and the cell is the second stage in the creation of artificial life?- Yes.

Moreover, it will be a primitive cell that can only serve itself. And then, probably, it will be possible to make a cell that will be part of a multicellular organism.

Is someone creating artificial life in Russia now?– This is mainly done by Americans.

They have several laboratories that are actively working in this direction. We have it at the level of conversations so far.

Do the cells have a nationality?– There is no Greek or Jew here.

Portal "Eternal youth" www.vechnayamolodost.ru25.02.2009