About the reality of the Methuselah Century: Part 1
Is it possible to change human nature?
Too bold a concept, too bright results, truly fantastic prospects… How are modern ideas about the mechanisms of aging changing, is it possible to influence them, what consequences will this lead to? Vladimir Petrovich Skulachev, the founder and scientific director of the project, agreed to answer these and other questions.
– During the XX century, life expectancy in developed countries has doubled on average. Is there a limit to growth? How long can a person live in principle?
– I think there is no limit and sooner or later people will come to practical immortality. I used to be afraid to say that because it sounded too provocative, but now, perhaps, it is already possible. The development of biology is progressing at such a fantastic pace that in 100 years it will be absolutely realistic to change human nature... This, of course, will not be immortality in its ideal form – when, for example, a reinforced concrete slab falls on a person, and we have a way to return him to his former state. But if we exclude such absolute catastrophes, it is quite possible to assume the reality of the Methuselah century, a life of several centuries.
In principle, we have not reached a state where people would die from the deterioration of the body. So far, I am sure, a person dies because he receives an order from his genome – enough to live, give room to others. This is a purely evolutionary mechanism, completely unnecessary for modern man, who stopped adapting to the environment and began to adapt the environment to his needs. How it will end, how dangerous such a situation is, is another question.
– If everyone lives like Methuselah, there won't be enough resources…
– A typical mistake. In fact, there are a lot of resources and they grow in proportion to human knowledge. This is a technical issue and it is quite solvable: it will be necessary – there will be resources. But I would like to emphasize once again that our goal is not immortality. We set ourselves a much simpler task: to transfer a person from the category of aging organisms to the category of ageless. This, apparently, is already real. Confirmation of this is the presence of ageless organisms in the wild. There are enough of them described, and among them there are both plants and animals. But perhaps the most striking example is the naked digger, an amazing mammal with a very interesting way of life, a complex social organization. They do not suffer from oncological, cardiovascular, infectious diseases, and their life expectancy is unusually long for small rodents - more than 30 years. So, recent work by biochemists shows that naked diggers have disabled a number of regulatory systems that are active in mice genetically close to them. And it is very similar to the fact that as a result, the signal that triggers the aging mechanism is interrupted.
– It turns out that aging is a genetic program. Does the entire scientific community agree with this understanding of this process?
– No, most scientists still disagree with this, our hypothesis is still dissident. But if you don't know what to look for, you'll never find it. First we need a hypothesis. As I.P. Pavlov said, you can't see facts without an idea. For biology, this is an absolutely iron rule. When I started doing aging as a program – 15-16 years ago – I was practically the only one in the world, it was considered indecent to speak out loud about such things. The dominant idea was that aging is a consequence of the wear and tear of the body, the accumulation of various errors. If so, then nothing can be done about aging, and everyone who deals with it is charlatans. But recently, one after another, scientific publications have begun to appear, which directly speak about the aging program. A few years ago, people tried to avoid such expressions – no reviewer would have missed such a publication…
– But the actual human aging genes are still unknown?
– No, exactly which genes control this process in humans is unclear, although they have already been found in one of the rhesus plants (Arabidopsis thaliana). Of course, it would be nice to say, "here it is, the human aging gene," but so far I can't point a finger at it. After all, the function of most human genes has not yet been established. But I think it will be done eventually. However, the practical meaning of such a discovery, if it takes place, is doubtful. The functions of genes are in a very complex relationship, and it is impossible to predict how the impact on one of them will affect the whole organism. Conducting such experiments with a person is a very big risk.
– Let's say there is an aging program. But what makes it possible to say that it is triggered by processes that occur in the mitochondria?
– We don't claim that, it's just a hypothesis. It was first expressed in the middle of the XX century by the American gerontologist Denham Harman, who suggested that aging is the result of the work of toxic oxygen forms. And two decades later, he clarified that these poisonous forms are formed precisely in the mitochondria. Now a large amount of experimental data has been accumulated, which confirms his correctness. We propose to take a step forward: to drive the antioxidant inside the mitochondria – with the help of our SkQ1 (Skulachev ions) – so that it neutralizes oxygen radicals. And we will break this chain. And the genes can't do anything about it. They will send new signals for the formation of radicals – and we will neutralize them again. Hence the whole ideology of our project.
– It is often asked how the mitochondrial theory of aging correlates with the telomeric theory. The discovery of telomerase was awarded the Nobel Prize not so long ago, and it is clear that this process is associated with tissue renewal, and therefore with aging…
– It is unclear why cell renewal is necessarily associated with aging. Yes, tissue cells, fibroblasts, for example, have a division limit. But stem cells, which are the source of new fibroblasts, do not have it. As there is no limit for embryonic and cancer cells. However, I do not think that the telomeric theory is in insoluble contradiction with ours. By the way, Alexey Matveyevich Olovnikov, who was the first to postulate the existence of telomeres, and, unfortunately, was awarded the Nobel Prize, was one of my first graduate students. He repeatedly modified his hypothesis, and in the end it turned out that the under–replication of DNA in the process of division is only one of the reasons for the shortening of telomeres. Another possible reason is the same effect of oxygen radicals. Because at the end sections of the chromosomes, DNA is not covered by protein and can easily be oxidized by active forms of oxygen. This assumption is confirmed experimentally: in the presence of oxygen radicals, the Hayflick limit (the number of divisions that cells can perform) is sharply reduced. So there is no contradiction, at some stage both theories may be compatible.
Read about new trends in the development of science, about age-related changes, the latest works of foreign scientists confirming the theory of programmed aging, as well as the results of preclinical and clinical studies of drugs intended for the treatment and prevention of senile diseases in the second part of the interview with V.P. Skulachev. The approximate publication date is June 30.Portal "Eternal youth" http://vechnayamolodost.ru